kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Dec 26, 2023 16:43:49 GMT
A thread for any question you might want to post in English -- questions only, no answers, as per the thread title, so let's get started, shall we?
Fooled you! This is a thread for questions -- and, hopefully, corresponding answers -- about the English language; declarative sentences are also allowed.
To inaugurate this thread: "I've been trying to make this idea work" sounds okay to me, but if I try to rearrange the sentence and emphasize "this idea" in a certain way, I can't find a way to... make it work! Namely: "This is an idea I've been trying to make work" sounds awful to me. It seems to call for a direct object to be placed between "make" and "work".
The sentence might just be absolutely fine, but I can't tell. How does it sound to you, and if you don't like it, how would you improve it while trying to preserve its general structure?
|
|
|
Post by Pacifica on Apr 4, 2024 20:36:58 GMT
I'm sorry to ask my own question when the original one hasn't been answered. Maybe others were as unsure as I am.
My question is:
When you use "look over" in the sense "proofread", "review", or the like, can "over" work as a preposition as well as an adverb? I.e. can you say "look over it" as well as "look it over"? Some random people on the internet say that both are fine, while other random people say that "look over it" is incorrect (for this meaning). The OED seems to be on the side of the latter... by omission at least (no "look over it" or sim. in the citations).
|
|
|
Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Apr 4, 2024 21:03:29 GMT
Some random people on the internet say that both are fine Kill them. It's the only language they understand. More seriously, 'look it over' is the only correct answer. It's quite possible that people who say that you can use either haven't really given much consideration to the matter. For one thing, they don't strike me as the sort of people who might consider that the input of others is crucial -- which explains the problem. I suppose the reason that I didn't answer kizolk's original question was that I felt that there was no real reason to be dogmatic about it, although his instinct as to what sounded better was reasonable.
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 22, 2024 3:26:34 GMT
When two phrasal verbs you're using in a single sentence have the same particle, can you use the particle only once and have it modify the verbal part of both verbs? By way of example: would "I'm done cleaning and packing up" be acceptable, or should you say "cleaning up and packing up"?
|
|
|
Post by dantius on Aug 22, 2024 20:33:04 GMT
When two phrasal verbs you're using in a single sentence have the same particle, can you use the particle only once and have it modify the verbal part of both verbs? By way of example: would "I'm done cleaning and packing up" be acceptable, or should you say "cleaning up and packing up"? I would say "I'm done cleaning" and "I'm done cleaning up" are two valid phrases with different meanings, at least as I'd use them. "Cleaning up" refers to a more targeted cleaning operation (e.g. "After dinner, it was time to clean up"). But in general if you're just taking about a large-scale dusting, organizing, etc. of a living space, I'd just use "clean," like "I've spent all day cleaning in preparation for our guests to arrive." You could also say "cleaning up" in that context, but I think I'd interpret that as a bit more focused on de-cluttering rather than mopping, stain removal, etc. And when used absolutely, I also might use "packing" without its particle, with a similar distinction ("packing up" would refer to a more targeted act of putting away some sort of temporary display/structure, like "After seven hours of displaying my wares at the farmer's market, it was time to pack up and go home" vs. "It took me a long time to pack for my upcoming vacation"). Now to answer the actual question, I'm not actually sure; certainly if they have a direct object it would sound weird (e.g. "I'm taking my shoes off and calling this wedding off" could not become "I'm taking my shoes and calling this wedding off," not that that's a particularly natural example either way). In your sentence, I'd say that "I'm done cleaning and packing up" sounds more natural than "I'm done cleaning up and packing up," but not because the particle is being carried over to both verbs; I'd just take it as the absolute usage of "cleaning."
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 23, 2024 1:14:15 GMT
Very interesting, thanks!
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 24, 2024 0:00:25 GMT
Let me add that I find phrasal verbs to be one of the biggest difficulties in learning/speaking English. I feel like they're an essential thing to master in order to sound natural, especially in casual/slangy speech, but they're so many of them (and sometimes easy to confuse) and like you showed, they can differ quite subtly from their non-phrasal counterparts.
This lack of mastery is something I've noticed in the English of many Francophones, and I'm guessing that the same said could be said about foreigners in general.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifica on Aug 29, 2024 0:12:43 GMT
"The Silvermane litter is now opening their eyes!"
(Just a sentence I came across on facebook.)
The weirdness of grammatical number at times...
You have a collective noun, "litter", followed by a singular verb, "is", because "litter" is technically singular. Then later on you have the plural possessive "their" referring back to the litter or, rather, to the individuals that compose it, even though no plural noun has been used to denote them.
The discrepancy is odd. Now, "the litter is opening its eyes" would be even weirder (though it's growing on me in a poetic kind of way). But the author could have written "the litter are opening their eyes", since collective nouns can take plural verbs. I might have gone with that. Which version do you guys like best?
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 29, 2024 4:23:01 GMT
I think I like the quoted version best actually. I just find it disturbing when a plural verb follows a singular noun, collective or not, even though I probably do it once in a while.
|
|
|
Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Aug 29, 2024 4:33:45 GMT
I'm OK with the litter having a plural verb, and don't like 'is' with 'their'. You can avoid the problem entirely by referring to them as kittens or puppies or whatever animal they are, and most people probably would.
|
|
|
Post by Pacifica on Aug 29, 2024 13:44:39 GMT
"the litter is opening its eyes" would be even weirder (though it's growing on me in a poetic kind of way) To me it makes the litter sound like one composite entity with a single soul or something along those lines. It sounds mysterious, maybe even sinister. Like it could be a litter of hellish animals controlled by a devil spirit. (OK, I guess that's just my poetic side speaking.)
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 29, 2024 15:58:55 GMT
To me it makes the litter sound like one composite entity with a single soul or something along those lines. That's how it sounded to me! And it would be a good name for a horror story monster.
|
|
kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,666
|
Post by kizolk on Aug 29, 2024 16:01:37 GMT
I am Legion Litter
|
|
|
Post by Pacifica on Aug 29, 2024 16:26:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Aug 29, 2024 18:36:33 GMT
I find the variety of meanings for 'litter' frankly bewildering, but it's a godsend for crossword setters.
|
|