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Post by Pacifica on May 2, 2023 22:51:50 GMT
archive.org/details/vitaesanctorumhi01plumuoft/page/22/mode/2upRight-hand page, chapter xxxiii, line 5 ( vas lactis optimi et quatti). Does anyone have an idea what that word might mean? I can't find an adjective quattus anywhere (I also tried possible variant spellings like quatus, cattus, catus... and all I found was mostly cats, as you can imagine).
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Post by Bitmap on May 3, 2023 1:14:35 GMT
I also tried possible variant spellings like quatus, cattus, catusWell, FWIW, quatus is a spelling variant of cyathus, but that's probably not what is meant here. My first instinct upon reading this was to think of lac quassum, which sounds like butter to me. Maybe Kerrygold had already been invented by the time that text was written  That could make *some* sense if an ſ was mistaken as a t. I obviously can't find, anything, either. That conjecture is the best guess I can offer here. |
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Post by LonginusNaso on May 3, 2023 6:08:05 GMT
Truly mystifying. My only guess is a fuckified version of coctus, maybe on the basis of some Gaelic word. Sean (Terry S.) might be of use here.
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Quatti
May 3, 2023 7:13:36 GMT
Post by Bitmap on May 3, 2023 7:13:36 GMT
So we both think it's some kind of processed milk ...
There are other words in there that I have not seen before. I take it "cuvula" simply means "room"?!
Edit: I asked some of my conspiracy theorist friends what they think it could mean ... since this may be more of a cultural than a Latin issue.
One said he had read a book on food in the mediaeval period once, and that "beaten milk" might make the most sense to him in that context. He was thinking of Schlagrahm, though, which is whipped cream.
I'm not sure about "cooked milk" ... normally, you wanted to make things durable for as long as you could since you didn't have a refrigerator, so you stored milk in the form of cheese, cream, butter, sour milk and what have you. Some of those products involve heating the milk, though.
An interesting observation my friend made was that the milk must have been sticky as the servants' hands were glued to the bar. best milk + very sticky milk does sound like whipped cream in that context.
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Quatti
May 3, 2023 15:20:55 GMT
Post by Pacifica on May 3, 2023 15:20:55 GMT
If shaking/beating is involved it could be buttermilk...
Cuvula is most likely a diminutive of cuva, a variant spelling of cupa, meaning a tub, cask or sim. (whence French "cuve").
The hands sticking to the bar has nothing to do with the type of milk involved; it's just divine intervention.
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Quatti
May 3, 2023 18:03:40 GMT
Post by Bitmap on May 3, 2023 18:03:40 GMT
The hands sticking to the bar has nothing to do with the type of milk involved; it's just divine intervention. Of course! |
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Post by Pacifica on May 3, 2023 19:03:16 GMT
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Post by Pacifica on May 3, 2023 19:11:10 GMT
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 0:02:49 GMT
Post by Bitmap on May 4, 2023 0:02:49 GMT
It doesn't seem to be a commonly attested phrase, though. You wouldn't have to do the research if it were As I said, butter was my very first association, as well. Buttermilk makes sense. |
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 0:45:37 GMT
Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on May 4, 2023 0:45:37 GMT
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 1:20:12 GMT
Post by Bitmap on May 4, 2023 1:20:12 GMT
It also translates "volis eorum adhesit" as "it clung to their will" :>
I suppose the translator just chose to ignore quatti and doubled up optimi instead.
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 2:04:09 GMT
Post by Pacifica on May 4, 2023 2:04:09 GMT
It also translates "volis eorum adhesit" as "it clung to their will" :> And sancti cuvula as "the holy vessel"... And inito consilio as "having entered into the plan"... Well, that translation at least makes grammatical and literal sense, but doesn't evince actual understanding of the phrase. And... well, I'm not going to analyse the whole thing. |
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Post by Pacifica on May 4, 2023 2:06:10 GMT
Anyway, I'll go with "buttermilk" in my own translation. That interpretation seems very plausible. Thanks to Bitmap for putting me on the (plausibly) right track.
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 3:39:31 GMT
Post by Bitmap on May 4, 2023 3:39:31 GMT
And inito consilio as "having entered into the plan"... Well, that translation at least makes grammatical and literal sense, but doesn't evince actual understanding of the phrase. Doesn't consilium inire mean "to make a plan"? I.e. they made a plan and sent messengers to the saint?! Out of interest, how did you translate Camross? That's an accusative in this sentence, isn't it? |
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Quatti
May 4, 2023 15:16:58 GMT
Post by Pacifica on May 4, 2023 15:16:58 GMT
In this context "after taking counsel" seemed a good translation for inito consilio.
I translated Camross as, well, "Camross". That's a place name and it's the same in English, from what I could find. And, yes, it's accusative here.
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