kizolk
Indecisive 
Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Sept 15, 2024 8:32:15 GMT
So is it obvious which song I mean? Not to me anyway. The Smiths are pretty stylistically diverse I would say: the "regular" indie/New Wave stuff, the happy danceable stuff, the moody ballads, the punkier stuff etc., but they now form a coherent whole to me. Now, seeing as it seems you were already familiar with that song, it would be natural enough to think it's a single, possibly one of their more popular ones, but I'm not sure which ones they are, let alone in the UK. And it sometimes happens that a song that's not a single becomes popular. So maybe you could confirm the song you're thinking of is in the following list? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Smiths_discography#SinglesBut I'll make a guess anyway, one I'm pretty sure is wrong though. I'm under the impression "How soon is now" is one of their most popular songs, so I would think many people would say that this is what the Smiths sound like, but I don't like it very much. So in a way, it's one of the least Smiths-sounding songs to me. |
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kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Sept 15, 2024 9:03:10 GMT
Another one that came to mind but I discarded because it was from their last album and that album doesn't seem to be very popular, is "Ask". I remember thinking it was a surprising song coming from the Smiths when I first heard it, notably because of its use of backing vocals, and it's a kind of unmitigated happy that they don't do often. But of course you can still tie it back to the rest of their repertoire: the vocal melody is still very Morrissey-sounding, and Marr's guitar work is unmistakably him-like. Still, it could be it.
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Sept 15, 2024 12:23:59 GMT
You were right the first time.
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kizolk
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Post by kizolk on Sept 15, 2024 12:42:07 GMT
Ah. Well, the chorus isn't bad, but I find the verses pointless, and their vocal melody somewhat convoluted.
The song reminds me a bit of Personal Jesus in terms of general atmosphere, except I like the Depeche Mode song a lot better.
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Sept 15, 2024 20:47:11 GMT
I would think many people would say that this is what the Smiths sound like Because I'd been involved in two discussions with very different people where this song was singled out as being the only one some people could stand, I asked the internet which Smiths song didn't sound like the Smiths, and it led me to Reddit? exchanges where it seemed to be the one most often mentioned. I didn't look past what appeared in the search results, and irritatingly I can't find it now. I thought I'd used the same search terms, but now all I'm getting is other groups that are supposed to sound like the Smiths, and even less relevant hits. Incidentally, I said earlier in Tfaat that I wasn't in the UK most of the time when the Smiths were in the charts. I was suprised by the woman I was talking to yesterday saying that her memories of that time (being at school) was that the group was far more popular with girls than boys back then, because they all thought Morrissey was cute. Nowadays all the Smiths fans you see are male, at least here. |
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kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Sept 16, 2024 4:22:16 GMT
I was suprised by the woman I was talking to yesterday saying that her memories of that time (being at school) was that the group was far more popular with girls than boys back then, because they all thought Morrissey was cute. Nowadays all the Smiths fans you see are male, at least here. Judging from live videos I've seen, I'm under the impression there were more females than males at their concerts, and the love for Morrissey was perhaps stronger than the love for their music. Maybe the former kind of love hasn't stood the test of time. Or maybe since then his status as a gay/bi icon has grown. |
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Sept 16, 2024 8:04:02 GMT
I asked ChatGPT which song Smiths haters sort of liked, rather hoping it would come up with something random, and ideally not a Smiths song at all. It didn't.
People who generally dislike the rest of The Smiths' output often express a preference for the song "How Soon Is Now?" This track stands out from their usual jangly guitar pop style, thanks to its dark, atmospheric sound and the iconic tremolo guitar effect used by Johnny Marr. It's often considered more sonically expansive and less lyrically idiosyncratic than their other work, making it more accessible to those who may not appreciate Morrissey's usual vocal or lyrical style.
Its broad appeal has made "How Soon Is Now?" a favorite even among those who aren't fans of the band's typical music.
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kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Sept 16, 2024 10:12:43 GMT
Not bad.
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kizolk
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Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Oct 1, 2024 18:52:37 GMT
I hate covers that show no respect for the original song. Those that are obviously intended to make the listeners go "wow, they really did it!! They made good music out of that crap!!"
Unfortunately, no example comes to mind right now. But I regularly get that feeling when listening to covers, e.g. in ads or TV shows.
What made me think about that was the opposite: I've heard a cover of the kind of song that could be covered "disingenuously" because it's a rather dated French classic. It's one of perhaps only two songs by Dalida that I like, and I'm glad that Pomme, an artist I like a lot, made a cover that comes from a good place. Or so it seems to me at least.
The original (well, it was actually itself a cover of a little known song that I do not know myself, but that's besides the point):
The cover:
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Oct 1, 2024 18:58:11 GMT
Good thing you don't know about English versions of Jacques Brel songs. Or maybe you do, but were being polite.
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Oct 1, 2024 19:00:55 GMT
Weirdly, I saw this when in a pub listening to a cover of 'Nature Boy' by Gandalf (who?). Actually, the story behind that song is much more interesting than the song itself.
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kizolk
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Post by kizolk on Oct 1, 2024 19:11:27 GMT
Good thing you don't know about English versions of Jacques Brel songs. Or maybe you do, but were being polite. I may have heard an English version of Amsterdam, but I'm not sure. Probably not a bad thing I forgot if I did. |
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Oct 1, 2024 19:55:11 GMT
I don't think I know that one. Probably fortunately. 'Le Moribund' was turned into 'Seasons in the Sun', which completely misses the point. It's impossible to express how awful it is.
'Ne Me Quitte Pas' became 'If You Go Away', which seems to be aiming at the point, but doesn't get there.
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Post by Etaoin Shrdlu on Oct 1, 2024 20:07:56 GMT
Incidentally, does anyone have any thoughts about 'Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover'? (Which notoriously only lists five.)
I'd always taken it to be a man talking to the woman he was in a relationship with. She sees he's unhappy, asks why, and when he says he wants out, doesn't take it seriously. So she suggests, as a joke, that it's easy to leave. Then she tells him to sleep on it, sure that he'll forget all about this silliness by the morning. Meanwhile, he sees that she was right, and decides to make an end of it.
But recently I've come across people who think she's not the woman he's in a relationship with: either she's his mistress/fling/potential soulmate who is encouraging him to get out of his current situation, or perhaps just a good friend he confides in. The former seems more persuasive than the latter, and perhaps better (though I'm loath to admit it) than my original interpretation.
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kizolk
Indecisive
Posts: 5,711
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Post by kizolk on Oct 1, 2024 20:25:03 GMT
How could I forget "If You Go Away"! I've heard worse covers, which I genuinely wouldn't feel very confident to say about "Seasons in the Sun". I've just listened to the Westlife cover, it's atrocious.
As for the Simon song, first let me say that the verses ring a bell, but I don't think I knew the song. Very good, and also an example of a song whose verses are better than the chorus, which isn't that common.
The most natural interpretation is the latter. Your take is interesting, but for it to work there should be more of a hint that she's joking and/or an ending where she regrets having joked about it now that she's alone, or something of that sort.
Oh and I know why the verses rang a bell: they sound a bit like the verses to Cabrel's song "L'encre de tes yeux"!
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